I, DM, or not?

[Flax]

I was just going over a few encounter in City Of The Spider Queen, and I realised how my group would just have no challenge, since pretty much everyone have uber-characters. I have though up some way to rebalance their power, but it is not enough. So this will be a very boring adventure since the PCs will be too powerfull. (even if they don't bring any cohorts/followers/anyone that helps). With cohorts, I wont even roll the battles, it would be pointless.

Anyways, I though of what I did wrong:
I was too nice with my PCs to an extreme, I gave them almost anything they wanted, but I beleive it is not enterly my fault, what could I say when in the face of one refusal or change to the character the player would say he wasn't playing anymore...

So I am not sure I will ever DM again ( maybe not ever, but it will be a while) , I mean, come to think of it my games had many flaws that I dislike in other peoples games...

Should I DM?

[Banzai Kamikaze]

The question is not should I GM(game master). It is, will me and my players have fun in my games? That is the important question. If you are bored to death but the players have fun, then the choice is yours. If you are having fun and the players don't, then you have a bigger problem:

I can't stress enough: the GM has to judge if, for example, giving too much power to the players does or does not remove the fun. It the PCs want to have fun with Uber characters, judge the situation: Will they continue to have fun throughout the games or will they get tired of being invincible? I tend to believe it is the latter. Therefore, giving too much power to players is not recommended, even though it's fun for a few games.

I know I'm not answering your question, it will be answered clearly later.

Anyways, I though of what I did wrong:
I was too nice with my PCs to an extreme, I gave them almost anything they wanted, but I beleive it is not enterly my fault, what could I say when in the face of one refusal or change to the character the player would say he wasn't playing anymore...

Could you have continued even if an unhappy player left the game? If so, then you should have imposed your decision. If not, which I believe was the case, you need to adapt to your players. This is another thing I firmly believe in: It is the GM who adapts to the player, not the players who adapt to the GM.
It's easy to say it, but nearly impossible to do it. What happens when you want a deeply immersive game and the players only have fun by messing around? Try to bring them back to line. If it doesn't work, adapt ! Change your ideas, make something more fun and less immersive. This is one way of dealing with unhappy players.

Sticking to my example, another way to deal with unhappy players is to talk to the them BEFORE the start of the campaign. And by talk, I mean TALK. Let them clearly know your intentions before they mess around.

I'm still not answering your question am I?

What I'm trying to prove here is that both the players and the GM need to have fun. Do you have more fun as a player or as a GM? If the answer is as a GM, you'll need to adapt to your players and take some difficult choices. However, if the answer is "as a player", then by all means don't be a GM. Not everyone is fit to like Gming, though it's good to at least try. If you try and fail (by fail I mean you or the players don't have fun), go back as a player, and find out what makes a good game. When you find the "key" to good and fun Gming, try again. If you don't find the key, then stay as a player.

I don't think "City of the Spider Queen" is a good setting to start testing if you like Gming or not, because it is a setting where we ALL want to have fun without roleplaying much. Try your own games, with one or two players to start, then more. You did GM me a few times, and I was satisfied as a player. I don't know if YOU had fun as a GM.

Finally to clearly answer your question: YES! You should DM IF you AND the players have fun in your games. I hope this helps !

[Archangel Zero]

While agreeing with Banzai that GMs should not be tyrannical agents of player frustration, I believe that some effort should be made by the players to be understanding towards their GMs, especially those who have GMed before. I think we are faced with a singularly immature group of players whose first and only reaction to the smallest frustration is to quit the game instead of TALKING. And by talking I don't mean saying things like: "Change this because it suXors!!!" or "Change that or I quit!!!". Also, when you players (yes, I'm talking about YOU!) agree to play in an immersive setting DO NOT F**K AROUND G*******T (sorry for the language, but it felt good ). Also note that if your GM becomes irascible, uncompromising or just plain mean, it might not be because he hates you and desires your death and suffering, it might be because YOU are taking the fun out of GMing.

So, an effort should be made by EVERYONE, GM and PLAYERS alike to make the role-playing experience as painless as possible.

P.S: ALL my settings are immersive, I have NEVER made a setting just to mess around, so unless I specify it, assume my setting is immersive, not the reverse. Thank you for your understanding.

[Flax]

I don't see an answer to my question in your post Pierre, since you're in my game I would like one.

[Archangel Zero]

It was fun, but overpowered gets boring after a while.

[Aficenos]

Good question, one I was faced with a long time ago for close to the same reason and I quit I just couldn't stand the players and the pressure that they put on me so I plainly and simply stopped Dming.

But that is not my suggestion or my answer to ure question. I profoundly beleive you should not give up because of the following reasons:
1- I beleive all the characters in the specifiq quest are rather immeresd
2- if they are overpowerd throw a red dragon at them before the beginning of the campaing to kill off ne "hired help" they may have so as to control them
3- If they remain to strong than drain there abailitys or create monster that have advantages against those specifiq type of creatures

Youre ultimite goal must be yes to keep people happy but also to keep control and if you feel you are loosing and have to tell a player to leave because he is abusing the rules than do so it is entierly youre rigth and it is also youre responsability to youre sanity and to the other players.


Just my two cents

[Rouroux]

I know what you feel Flax.

I've experienced it a while ago, when someone aked me to do a character and I didn't agree because I thought that character wouldn't fit in the game,and would be just out of context. And he threatened me to quit my game.

It's quite frustrating for a DM, I agree. Though I think the DMs should give some freedom for their characters but still keep order in the game. If you think someone wants to play a too much uber char, than tell him that you don't agree, that the char is too much uber. If that person is intelligent and wise, he/she/it sill understand. Or if he/she/it threatens to quit, than let him/her/it quit.

You know, a way I found to keep my players low on power, so they will not get too much uber items, is to not let them have too much money. In other words:

KEEP THEM POOR!!!!!!

(my players will understand what I mean)

[Archangel Zero]

You could have edited your post you know... that looks really weird...

[Flax]

Oh, btw Guillaume, how to you make 10th level PCs in a pregenerated adventure poor? (without oppressing them)

[Archangel Zero]

Pennyless PC = Pissed off Player, especially if he has way less that what he should have as per DMG guidelines. Also remember that you can send much more stuff against high level PCs to exhaust their ressources.

[Flax]

Like I said, I don't have time to make the adventure. Since its a pregenerated adventure I won't be wasting time replacing monsters.

[Archangel Zero]

Then check the recommended level and make PCs of that level.

[Flax]

4 10th level PCs...

Anyways I'll post a list of things I am changing, those who are not happy and want to leave, will leave.