How to acquire Dark side points

[Banzai Kamikaze]

Acquiring Dark side points is a subject which has been debated for over a year in official forums. The rules give a lot of liberty to the GM. Therefore, I would like to give you right now a brief summary of situations where I would give you DSPs.

Situations where you cannot contest during a game:
---> If you use a force skill/feat which automatically gives you a dark side point, you will get a DSP,no matter what the situation is.
--->If you use the force to directly harm someone, innocent or not (think about harmful uses of move object for example)
--->If you do something very evil with or without the force (essentially, harm innocents)

Situations where you could contest during a game:
--->If you use the force to indirectly harm someone, unless it's for a very good cause. (for example, qui-gon jinn's use of the force to fudge the roll of dice of Watto was for a good cause, but using friendship to convince someone to put his life in danger is not)
--->If you let bad emotions guide your actions (vengeance, hate, jealousy, etc.). Be honest in a game, and tell me if you act following these bad emotions.
---->If you do something quite evil for no good reason(torturing a droid, stealing candies from a kid, cheat at sabbac)
---->If you attack someone without provocation. (for example, you will get a DSP if you attack by surprise a stromtrooper guarding your friends in a prison). You have to at least try to reason with your enemies.
---->If you attack enemies when it was clear you could have spared him. (for example, if the bounty hunter who killed your friends surrendered, you shouldn't slay him).

Don't hesitate to post your comments !

[Flax]

What's a Dair side point? No seriously look a your title...

I think you have to specifie the deffirence between the radicals at the tradionalists.
Exemple: Your are confronted by stormtroopers that want to kill you. ( you are weaponless) . You knock over some crates on them with move object and kill one.
As a radical you would not get any DS, right?

Now, for attacking a stormtrooper by suprise, lets say I don't kill him, I sneak up on him and attack his rifle in a suprise round. Why shoud I gat a DP for that?

[Banzai Kamikaze]

There should be no difference for acquiring DSPs for traditationalists and radicals for my first set of situations (about situations that cannot be contested).

However, the second set of situations is more open to discussion. As per the official rules, radicals and traditionalists should get the same DSPs. In your example (with the crates), the radical should get a DSP. The radicals use the force as a tool, yes, but not as a weapon. However, if in your example the radical used the crate to knock out the stormtrooper and not to kill him, then maybe I wouldn't give a DSP.

The main difference between radicals and traditionalists is not the way they handle the Force, but the way they look at their role in the galaxy.

In your other example, you wouldn't get a DSP. When I meant attacking, I meant attacking with the goal of hurting or killing. If you sneak to take his weapon out, for a good reason I believe of course, then you would not get a DSP. However, if you just took his weapon out because you could and had no real reason to do so, then you would get a DSP.

[Archangel Zero]

Banzai said:

If you let bad emotions guide your actions (vengeance, hate, jealousy, etc.)

for example, you will get a DSP if you attack by surprise a stromtrooper guarding your friends in a prison

These two are way too harsh for a non-jedi character.

First, most people in the galaxy do act, often enough on bad emotions, does it make them necessarely evil? For Jedi, fine, other force users, maybe, but regular people...

Second, you just killed the usefulness of sneak attack.

[Banzai Kamikaze]

I forgot to mention these were rules for Jedi Force Users... These rules do not apply to Force Adepts and non Force Users.

If you want to, I can also make clear rules for Force Adepts and non force users.

[Archangel Zero]

Oh, that explains a lot.

Yeah, rules for non-jedi would be useful to avoid arguments and stuff like that.

[Banzai Kamikaze]

Ok, here it goes: For non Jedi classes (normal classes and force adepts), the first set of rules still applies. However, here are the changes for the second set of rules. You will get DSPs


--->If you use the force to indirectly harm someone, unless it's for a very good cause. (for example, qui-gon jinn's use of the force to fudge the roll of dice of Watto was for a good cause, but using friendship to convince someone to put his life in danger is not)
---->If you attack enemies when it was clear you could have spared him. (for example, if the bounty hunter who killed your friends surrendered, you shouldn't slay him).

[Banzai Kamikaze]

I reread these rules, and I found one too limiting for jedi. You won't get Dark Side Points if:
---->If you attack someone without provocation. (for example, you will get a DSP if you attack by surprise a stromtrooper guarding your friends in a prison). You have to at least try to reason with your enemies.

This rule is too hard to follow and there are a lot of examples in books where Jedis attack bad guys without discussing first with them.

Now, I think one of the rules need clarification. You will AUTOMATICALY get a Dark Side Point if:
--->If you use the force to directly harm someone, innocent or not (think about harmful uses of move object for example)

This rule was contested a few times throughout the game, so I am reminding it. This rule mostly concerns "move object". This skill should NOT be used to harm enemies. By harm, I don't necessarely mean doing damage. Hurling an object at an enemy gives a Dark Side Point (it's even a dark side skill in Jedi Knight the PC Game). Pushing an enemy over a cliff (with move object) gives a dark side point

Now, if you use move object on an enemy for a GOOD cause, then you don't get a Dark Side Point. If you remove a weapon from an enemy SO THAT HE DOESN'T HARM SOMEONE, you do not get a Dark Side Point. If you remove it and then close in to kill him, this gives you a dark side point. The basic guideline is, if you use move object on an enemy, did you do it because you had no other meanings to resolve the situation or because it helps you vainquish him? Again, remember that the Force cannot be used to harm someone...this is simple to read, but hard to completely understand.

If you are still unsure about when you get a Dark Side Point, ask me.